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Suggestion And Issue: Bteam Pve Rules

11 replies
BipolarPotato Member
Posts:
13
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+6
Alright, so this is a major grievance of mine every time the topic comes up.

BTEAM PVE has rules against raiding, griefing, etc, correct?
Then tell me, what is the point of such a rule when we have towny, and therefore allow others into our towns to take advantage of said plugin, and YET it is completely legal for someone to grief/steal from another person in their own town?
I've had a few people say "Then don't let people in your town if you're afraid" but here are the BIG flaws with that:

1. Why have a town at all? Why use towny if we can't use it properly? Why have it be PVE and not PVE if we allow such a loophole to exist? And WHY is no one bothering to try and seal this loophole, but instead insisting to keep it wide open?
2. I SHOUDN'T need to be afraid for my items and builds on a PVE server. The staff should be working to care for it's players, not to enable their upsets.

A PVE server should be a safe place for players who wan't low risk play. Not having to have such fears about other players and having trust issues with them. It should be a community.
If I wanted to be able to be stolen from at all, I'd play PVP.


So, Here are the options I see for this issue,
Either:

1. Change the rule and the server type. If you allow any form of stealing/griefing, you are not a PVE server that disallows such things. Change the claim type from Towny to Factions.

OR

2. Actually enforce the rule you have provided. I know it can take "a lot of work" to enforce a rule. But it's a public server, and you have to take care of your players if you want to stay afloat.
If there is a no raiding/stealing/griefing rule in place, there should be 0 tolerance towards it if someone is proven to have done such a thing. There shouldn't be easy ways for people to get around the rules and get away with it. It's a massive MASSIVE flaw and should be addressed.

Kindly look at it from the normal player's point of view:
"There's no stealing on this server! What a relief! Wait- My friend I let in my house stole all my diamonds!! MODS!!"
Mods: "Sorry, shouldn't have let him in if you didn't want stolen from"
"But the rule-"
"SHOULDN'T HAVE LET HIM IN"
---How every instance of this tends to go that I've seen.


Alright, It's a bit of a ramble at this point, but the TL;DR:
Either allow stealing or don't. Simple as that.
Thank you.
Posted Dec 10, 18 · OP
Slipplaysmc MemberTinker
Posts:
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Votes:
+30
I'd argue that this has much more to do with the logistics of the rule, and much less to do with "it being too much work". We still deal with the complaints every time something like this happens and look into it. Normally, unless it is very obviously griefing, we physically cannot do much because there is no evidence of what the mayor and town member agreed upon. For example: If a mayor claims a town member griefed them (a few items are missing), but the town member claims the mayor gave permission to take the items, who do we believe and why? We can't choose one over the other. As mentioned in game, this happened to me before: I was kicked out of a town in which I stored all my items in the main item storage, along with the other things, and because the chests were technically technically placed by the owner, I had no rights to the items. IF "stealing" was not permitted and they had gone with the mayor's word, I would have been banned despite them being my items, because there was no significant proof.

Just because you can use the perms you have been granted does not mean we are not a pve server. The same rule stipulations for in-town stealing and griefing apply on almost every pve server out there: If you give someone perms to build, you have given them permissions to build, and we only have "evidence" that the player griefed against the mayor's wishes if literally everything is gone, or there is literal, obvious damage, such as large blast craters or whole buildings destroyed via other means.

Again, PvE is not a raiding server, nor is it a pvp server. We already have a pvp server, so there is no good reason to switch from towny to factions because of one rule that can be perceived as inconsistent, but regardless: Factions is just another way of claiming land, and is very similar to towny, so I fail to see how that would solve any issues. The same complaint could just as easily still exist under facs.

You shouldn't be concerned about your items, and if you are, make a claim private and protect your house from the other town members, it's not very difficult to protect. If a player is given the physical rights to build, destroy, and take items in your town, then they are normally at no fault for using the permissions they have been granted, and if you don't want them to take your items don't let them.

Lastly, is it a big issue? I don't think so, these conflicts very rarely arise and are usually mediated very easily. I've been staff for over a month now and have seen one town conflict of this variety, and it was a joke that the players made up just to get some attention, so it's certainly not like pve is crumbling into pieces because of this one rule, which seems to be the implication here. We're doing fine, nobody else really dislikes this rule, and it is very rarely a problem, so.. I fail to see why we would change it. But, again, you're obviously entitled to your opinion, as is anyone else, and if you get enough positive responses, perhaps we will change it, or at the very least, alter the rule so it's more clear or consistent.

Additionally, while I don't really agree that the rule needs changing, I can agree that it may be misleading for new players, so what we should do is add some more information at the towny rules signs, stating that (for the time being), if you give someone permission to do things in your town, they can use those permissions. At the very least, that will just make things more clear.
Posted Dec 10, 18 · Last edited Dec 10, 18 by Slipplaysm...
Posts:
200
Votes:
+46
I agree with slippy it isn't as much a "it's too much work" issue as in its logistically impossible to perform with no issues and the players can take countermeasures themselves to combat their items being taken without permission as in strongboxes or plots they can only access. And I have been staff for at least 9 months now and I can only recall a dozen cases like this and most of them were resolved easily, so it isn't a rampant issue like you insinuate or at least it comes off as if you are insinuating that it is.
I don't see this issue as a "massive flaw", you made it seem like it was something all too common that needed to be addressed right this instant and that there is only the two options (you suggested) we can take. I personally disagree with both the options you recommended, although I do think that having a broadcast warning people and getting information out to people on how to protect their items in public towns with plots or strongboxes in signs can be beneficial.
Posted Dec 10, 18
BipolarPotato Member
Posts:
13
Votes:
+6
1. Chat logs and system logs.
2. A simple anti-grief plugin to show who activates what blocks.
Those are two VERY simple ways to enforce the rule. Claims shouldn't be dismissed because they're not blatent examples. Infact, quite the opposite. Players DESERVE to be protected under the rules they agree to follow.
If you can't enforce a rule, then don't have it to begin with.
Upholding rules should take priority over anything else. They exist for a reason.
Also: It's not a major issue until it happens and you lose players over it. I'd rather be safe than sorry and use forethought not hindsight.
Posted Dec 10, 18 · OP
BipolarPotato Member
Posts:
13
Votes:
+6
It should be better enforced or not at all. Seeing staff dismiss it and not even bother to think about taking any action that would burden themselves just shows players that they don't matter. They're a number. The server should be protecting it's player base from wrong doers to the fullest of their abilities. Right now, that's not happening.
Posted Dec 10, 18 · OP
Slipplaysmc MemberTinker
Posts:
83
Votes:
+30
Expecting us to comb through every chat log to see what the players agreed upon is literally almost impossible and very unrealistic to say the least. Unless the players know the exact day and exact time (which they wouldn't, why would they), we'd have to comb through at the very least, 2 weeks of chat logs, and that's only IF the players clearly agreed on something in one or two chat entries. That will never happen.

"Players DESERVE to be protected under the rules they agree to follow"
They are tho. And everyone else seems to be at okay terms with that. In the current state, we've made clear to players that if you add someone to the claim, what they do is their responsibility.

"Also: It's not a major issue until it happens and you lose players over it. I'd rather be safe than sorry and use forethought not hindsight."
This server has been around for a very long time, you know this. I've been here for 6 months, I've never seen us lose one player over it, and if you think other people have complained about it lots in the past, you're welcome to comb through the forums, because they would have posted about it too.

"Seeing staff dismiss it and not even bother to think about taking any action that would burden themselves just shows players that they don't matter."
This is point blank not true. When players report it, staff come on and deal with it. I've dealt with this myself as mentioned, and we try our best to mediate between the two players so that everyone is happy. We enforce the rules as they currently are, and it has never been a matter of not putting in effort or making the players think we don't care - Quite the contrary

"The server should be protecting it's player base from wrong doers to the fullest of their abilities. Right now, that's not happening."
That's just your opinion though. I would argue we do everything within reason to protect players from being wronged by other players within the definitions of the rules. Again, nobody else seems to think the players are currently being neglected because of our stipulations on this rule.
Posted Dec 10, 18 · Last edited Dec 10, 18 by Slipplaysm...
BipolarPotato Member
Posts:
13
Votes:
+6
I personally have been stollen from. I had no towns members, but I was in a nation. My chest was emptied of all items. Kbow what happened when I brought it up? I was dismissed and told "too bad so sad" by staff. It may not seem an issue to you. But to people like me, the players, it is. We deserve to be heard and deserve to be treated with some form of dignity and we should feel able to rely on our staff. But instead it feels, at least to me, like staff could care less about their players. I hate that I have to feel this way about a server I've always loved playing on. I've been on coolax for almost 2 years on and off. It hurts to see staff so quick to defend themselves and not their players. It starts with this and extends on to create other issues. You seem to miss the point of why I bring this up: staff should care. Staff should care for their players and not dismiss issues they bring up. It shouldn't sound daunting that you should at least put effort into making your players feel happy and welcomed. I am a veteran of coolax. All I want is for the staff to at least try to care. That's all. Just try and care about the people who play. Concider their needs and aknowlege that as staff you are responcible for keeping rules regulated and enforced. That's what staff are supposed to do.
Posted Dec 10, 18 · OP
Slipplaysmc MemberTinker
Posts:
83
Votes:
+30
Again, we do care about players and their issues, and have shown so time and time again. If we didn't care, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Your one experience with being stolen from doesn't implicate our whole staff team, but if you felt like you were treated poorly, I apologize on whoever you dealt with's behalf. Nobody else really seems to think we don't care, and as already mentioned: We do enforce our rules within the parameters we've outlined, which stipulate that your claims and who you add are your responsibility.
Posted Dec 10, 18 · Last edited Dec 10, 18 by Slipplaysm...
Posts:
200
Votes:
+46
Wait are you talking about Oct 21 the whole situation about your ores being stolen? The person did get punished for that your ticket even has a comment made by me on the 29th saying "Dealt with. Thanks for your report" if your talking to what we discussed in discord prior to your ticket being looked into I didn't say "so sad too bad" I've explained to you why these kinds of cases are in most cases a case by case thing and that a manager will look into it regardless...
Posted Dec 10, 18
Posts:
200
Votes:
+46
"
Divine [Temp Infinity Manager]10/21/2018
By allying them you essentially gave them access to your equipment could be considered a player error not sure what usually happens in that sort of situation up to iluded and by proxy vhek I suppsoe
"
Explained why it was a case to case basis and said iluded or vhek (managers) will look into it regardless

(This is in #bteam_pve)
Posted Dec 10, 18
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